Mouth Care

Hi Dr. Ellie,

I\’ve been using Spry toothpaste with both xylitol and flouride, mainly because the taste of Crest and the effect it has on my mouth are both harsh and unpleasant.  Same problems with Listerine, which has to be the vilest smelling personal care product ever.  I literally have to open the bathroom window to air the room after using it.  (This is not an exaggeration.)  So, I’ve tried Tom’s of Maine fluoride rinse with no problems.  Are either of these products compatible with your objectives?
 – J
Dear J
I am familiar with most of the products in the US oral care marketplace – especially the ones you mention.

My objective with my work is to help people with dental problems.

My system can do that by stopping dental disease ( teeth and gums)
It can  protect teeth and gums from future problems and even reverse issues and infections that may already have caused damage.

There is no other “over the counter” product that I know can do all of this.
It has taken me over 30 years of clinical work with patients to determine the exact regimen that will work – the regimen is exact and involves the exact products I mention on my websites.
On the other hand, if you are using the products that you prefer, and are enjoying wonderful oral health – then keep using them!!

I do not make any money from recommending the products that I recommend.
You can go to the grocery store and use the items that I suggest – and I will never know, and certainly never benefit from these sales!

I do what I do and recommend the system that I recommend, because I am a doctor.
As a doctor I took an oath to share any information I discovered that could heal people.
I found this particular system of health care.
I take this oath very seriously.

I am not here to argue about tastes, smells or discredit other products.
I do not recommend xylitol paste or the rinses that you mention for a number of reasons.
Spry nasal spray is great, and Spry mints and gum are fine also. It is the toothpaste and rinse that I do not like.

Thanks so much for your interest and for writing to me,
Best wishes,


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  • NightWolf says:

    So no less costly generic form of Listerine or ACT will work?According to here: Dr said generic fluoride mouthwashes would work at least, but also supports you on the Listerine part, saying generics arn't 'clinically effective'. What exactly makes either wash(and that specific toothpaste) so 'special' that you have to get that specific type? Specific ingredients or ingredient ratios? I'm curious about these sorts of things, and how you came to these consclusions.I've been researching this system for a few days now, considering trying it, but looking for ways to cut costs(who isn't these days)if possible without hurting the effectiveness.I've found a place that sells bulk(1000pcs.) 1.06g Xylitol chewing gum for $70, free shipping. Nifty.Also, on disinfecting the toothbrush after brushing… could you just spit out the listerine you use afterwards on it to disinfect it, saving some listerine? Or alternatively just dip it in the amount your going to use to rinse, before you rinse with it?Thanks =)

  • NightWolf says:

    Oh, another thing. The Closys site has this to say about alcohol-containing rinses(like Listerine):Alcohol is found in many oral rinses, and is used for its antibacterial effect.Unfortunately, alcohol also dries out your mouth and reduces its natural pH, making the mouth more acidic, creating the ideal environment for new bacterial growth.In addition, there are potential risks associated with the use of alcohol in oral rinses including burning, deterioration of dental restorations, and the possible link to certain types of cancers.Is this true? And if so, what are your reasons for using Listerine in spite of that information?Sorry for all the questions, I really just want to understand the hows and the whys of the system =)

  • Dr. Ellie says:

    I feel as if I have answered this question a million times, but here goes again!I believe that spending a few extra cents on the correct rinse will save you thousands of dollars in dental and general health bills in the future.The problem is that you will never know how much you saved!I know that correct brand name products – used in the correct order will WORK.I have testimonials from people over the country who have stopped needing gum treatments and who have seen their oral health improve.I suggest you start with the correct "ingredients" so that you know the "gold standard" of how this SHOULD work – and then do your own experimenting, if you need to.I only buy the real products – and never skimp with cheaper substitutes.It is actually the INACTIVE ingredients in ACT that make the "real kind" work better.Good luck, and as the ad says – "just try it!"

  • NightWolf says:

    I had planned on using the Listerine to begin with; multiple dentists say likewise after all. However, you said that Listerine is effective against immature mouth-bacteria; so is Closys not effective against this immature plaque bacteria?I ask, because the Closys site recommended against alcohol-based rinses, citing that it lowers ph making the mouth more acidic(which as you said is bad) which encourages more bacteria growth(also bad), can deteriorate dental restorations, and is possibly linked to certain cancers. Is this false, or is it like flouride, where the benefits outweigh the potential hazards?Understand, I do not doubt your expertise Dr. Ellie. I'm just concerned about the potential hazards of the alcohol based Listerine(if true) and whether there is a non-alcohol based alternative that does the same job.I'm still grabbing the ingredients within the week to start the program.

  • Dr. Ellie says:

    To Nightwolf re: your second post: There cannot be any circumstance to RECOMMEND leaving alcohol in the mouth.My entire teaching is based on the fact that there are two things that really damage teeth – acidity and mouth dryness.There are many reasons for mouth acidity and mouth dryness – and they are different for each person – but obviously alcohol will dry the mouth.The thing about Listerine is that it is both acidic ( pH of 4.2) and it contains alcohol which dries the mouth.HOWEVER, the whole point of my system is that I do not suggest leaving Listerine on teeth.My system is perfectly balanced to address both the problems of acidity AND the drying effects of Listerine.You protect your teeth with the ONLY toothpaste I know that will instantly protect your teeth FROM the acidity of the Listerine.You coat your teeth with this toothpaste prior to using Listerine mouth rinse.Then (after your gums have enjoyed the benefits of Listerine) you immediately wash it off your teeth and out of your mouth.You do this with a mouth rinse whose BENEFITS are even greater when used in an acidic mouth ( that acidity that you created with Listerine).Listerine has been used as a mouth rinse since the early 1900s.Listerine is the most widely used of all mouth rinses. Many companies ( including Closys WISH they had the distribution of Listerine.) Most of the shots taken at Listerine have been from other mouth rinse companies, or out of Australia – (where they have a similar kind of oil that they WISH could be used as widely as Listerine. The Australian studies were not accurate for real life situations).I have no financial connection with any of these companies – but you could imagine I am on the Listerine payroll I guess! It truly is a fantastic adjunct to my system of oral care.The studies that have been done with Listerine show several things – 1) in 60 seconds Listerine wipes out all the bad germs that powerful mouth rinses like chlorhexidine (ugh – never use) take 5 minutes to wipe out 2) it does not affect the healthy flora of the mouth ( because the effect is from essential oils that Listerine contains: eucalyptus, menthol and thymol. These ingredients "lyse/ pop" the immature spore-like plaque bacteria 3) there are many studies that have tried to incriminate Listerine – but the only studies that succeeded have been done in a lab – in petri dishes – and not in real life situations 4) used in the way that I recommend you will get sustainable oral health.Hope this helps you ( and others) understand why I recommend Listerine – and why most of your concerns are justified but not applicable to the use of Listerine in my system!Best wishes,Ellie

  • NightWolf says:

    "Many companies ( including Closys WISH they had the distribution of Listerine.) "Aha. I had momentarily forgotten about this important fact. Companies put profits in front of consumer health, and will say anything to put more dollars in their pockets. Makes it extremely hard to find out what's Really good for you. My thanks for helping us ordinary folks cut through the bull with your site.I had read further on what you've said, about the fluoride in crest protecting the teeth from the listerine, and the following act rinse removing the remnants. Makes sense.I had grabbed the crest paste, listerine and act today, it'll be a week before the order of closys and xylitol come in. The system is simple and easy enough to follow, and I already chew gum constantly (well, not so much after I found out they all had aspartame in them, but now i'll have the xylitol gum, so I can chew away again) Already, my teeth feel… slicker. And listerine isn't nearly as harsh as the equate I was using.I've got no dry mouth problems, and eat reasonably well; I've been staying away from sugary confections. I'm using Stevia now for all practical applications to get away from table sugar.I'll keep you updated on any progress I make. Hoping this will remedy the translucency of my teeth and finally get rid of those brown spots.Thanks,Mike

  • Dr. Ellie says:

    Listerine is a wonderful rinse but it can be a problem – I agree. Listerine is acidic ( with a pH of 4.2) and because of the alcohol it contains, it is potentially mouth-drying. So the dentists who say it is a problem are correct – but, like most things – there is MORE TO THE STORY!!!Studies show that Listerine has antibacterial effects far superior to many stronger antiseptic mouth rinses.The good news for Listerine is that it does not damage healthy oral ecology, even when used for years and years.However, no one wants to leave acidity or alcohol in any mouth. So, the important thing to consider is what happens – AFTER you have rinsed with Listerine.When you check deeper into this – you find that there are some people who have alkaline mouths, some people who have moist ( saliva-filled mouths) and some people who little saliva and acidic mouths.Young, healthy men normally have lots of alkaline saliva in their mouths.Their own mouth liquids will wash away the acidity of the Listerine and any alcohol.This means that anyone with a moist and alkaline mouth will probably be OK using Listerine – no problem.Damage from Listerine will, however, occur in any mouths where the conditions cannot compensate or wash away this acidity and alcohol.These people cannot take away the acidity and drying action of Listerine. ( These are people who should NEVER use Listerine EXCEPT when used in my mouth rinse system).My Mouth Care System compensates for any detrimental aspects of Listerine – actually turning them into a benefit.My system allows everyone – particularly those with dry or acidic mouths – to enjoy all the benefits of Listerine for gum health.In addition, my mouth rinse system uses the acidity of Listerine to provide a special benefit for teeth.Also my mouth rinse system, used correctly will wash away any alcohol ~ with the final "non-alcohol" mouth rinse – ACT.Crest Cavity Protection paste supplies protection for the teeth immediately BEFORE they contact the acidity of the Listerine. This is why I recommend this toothpaste and NO water rinsing between the steps.After the Listerine, I suggest the acidity and alcohol be immediately washed away with ACT .ACT is a dilute fluoride rinse which will remineralize enamel after acidic exposure. ( You see this is how we use the acidity of the Listerine to our advantage and make teeth stronger and whiter!!).The cool thing is that the sodium fluoride of ACT is able to make the acidic enamel more acid resistant – and this makes enamel stronger and harder ~ because of this two step process.Hope this explains things for you!Ellie

  • Dr. Ellie says:

    Sounds great – and remember that Closys is available in Walgreen stores.

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